Scotia Supply

captsully18

Bill,
Thanks so much. I think i have it now. Between you and Karl I may make to the end. This chalk thing has been quite the hurdle for me. Can't wait to see what the next one will be. Appreciate your input. Shingle material should arrive in the next couple days. I plan to do the side buildings' roof with it. So, now back to the first floor with all this new info.

David

captsully18

Karl, Bill,

Tried y'alls advice. I think I am on the right track, but want y'all to weigh in and tell me. I practiced on a piece of a wall I had laying around. The first is before weathering, and the second is after I weathered with chalk ( I think I may have over done the weathering ). What do you guys think?





Thanks for your advice.

captsully18

I failed to tell what I had done to the wall. First I sprayed it with earth. About 1hr later I washed it with A/I. I let that dry for about 10 min., hit it with hair dryer for good measure then used some Vallejo paints ( Grey, Med. Brown, Lt. Brown all thinned with water ). Hit it with hair dryer again for about 5 min. Scraped yellow ocher, and raw sienna on casting and worked them around with a brush. Then blew excess off and went over entire casting with a makeup brush. Then ran A/I down the cracks. The last pic in last post is what resulted. I mentioned that I wasn't all that happy with results. Couldn't let it rest. Went back and flooded casting with A/I then dry brushed Floquil primer over the face. Think I might just like this one. Will let the experts give final note.

Karl.A

Dave we are definitely making progress, and yours is in the right direction. Your dry brushing is definitely looking much better, as is the blending of variation.

Stone work is a tough egg to hatch, this is due to the fact that there are regional differences in colouration of rocks and the fact that geology differs greatly from region to region. Someone from Wales for instance may be used to seeing slate coloured stone and cool grey rockwork whereas someone from Arizona may be more familiar with warmer reds, browns and tans.

I really like the last three pics and the evolution it shows from picture one to picture three. All of the progressions are working well and you are getting the results from each step that build upon the last. Nice work.

To my eye the basics are now accomplished and it's time to take this to the next level with some minor refinements... but, those ideas will need to wait until tomorrow as it is now 1am for me.

Great progress,

Karl.A

Bill

Very nice! Picture 2 doesn't look particularly natural, but when you added the A/I and dry brushing you tied everything together by unifying the stones and adding some age and depth. You should be proud of your work!

Next go round, try experimenting with the stone colors. Paint some of the stones the same gray, med brown, and light brown (just as it comes out of the bottle) but then mix them up a little: take a dab of light brown and a dab of gray. Mix it around on your work surface and color a few stones with that mixture. Then, try a dab of med brown and a dab of gray…swirl those 2 colors on your glass and paint a few stones with that combination. You'll end up with some stones that are just slightly different in tone than the ones next to it but still in the same family of colors.

Again, well done!

captsully18

Bill,
I feel like a kid in school. I am learning so much here. Grateful for the help I'm gettin', especially from you and Karl. Think I have another piece of casting to practice on before I tackle the first floor, again. Thanks for the kudos.

David

captsully18

Here is todays attempt. I am pleased and think I am getting it.

Bill

Good! You've got a nice range of colors and a fine looking wall. Very believable.
Couple suggestions for a little fine tuning:
-go lighter on the dry brushing. You want that color to be almost imperceptible. It's intended to replicate the way light hits the edges of objects; not be an actual color or portion of the object (the stone in this case). Too much and it looks like a hard frost set in. This technique just takes practice.
-make sure to still add the chalk. This step helps take away the "newness". It dulls down the colors and reduces the shine
-remember that all these walls and different castings are going to become part of a complete scene. With that in mind, don't let the colors from casting to casting (specifically the stones) vary too much or else you run the risk of having them appear out of place. You said this was another wall to practice on, but just in case I wanted to point this out: the latest picture looks to be a tan-ish wall with some black stones here and there, while the previous one appears to be a black-ish wall with accents of tan stones. Both look very plausible but see how the darker one looks very old? Now check out your most recent wall...the lighter more distinct colors make it look like it's been recently constructed.

Don't let my suggestions dampen your spirits. Take a moment and compare these two castings to where you were 48 hours ago. That's a lot of progress in a short amount for time!

captsully18

Bill,
Your input is most valuable. I appreciate what you're saying. Will try one more practice and then I'm gonna tackle that first floor. Just want to make Brett proud of another fo his great models. I have come to appreciate what every one says about them. Later.

David

Wes

Tell you what David. You have 2 of the best coaching you through this. Your results are getting much better with each post.

captsully18

Wes,
Thank you for the kind words. And, yes Bill and Karl have been so helpful. Without their input I would be making an absolute mess out of this wonderful kit. Thanks for stopping by and for following along. Hope to make some good progress soon.

David

Karl.A

Bills last two posts have essentially been what I was going to say, but, he beat me to it both times. Top notch Bill, well explained. Great progress again David.

Karl.A

captsully18

Thanks Karl, I have just about screwed up enough courage to go back to work on the first floor. Keeping my fingers crossed that I can salvage it. Oh, I guess I can't do to much to it with my fingers crossed, so......

David

Karl.A

Might be better to clean it off (either partially or completely) and start over David, rather than 'salvage'. That way you will be starting from a better place and a clean slate. Trying to go over the previous colours will most likely effect the new and improved outcome, especially the chalk and A/I already on the casting may soak up into the new colours and effect the appearance.

Options:
1)Use a soft old toothbrush with warm water should get most off. Respray light coat of primer.
2)Xylol will strip it all back off to bare resin. Respray light coat of primer.

Reasons for removal are a) the previous colours may effect the new finish. b)we don't want to fill in all that exquisite detail with layers upon layers. c)you will find it much easier to repeat the results in the future.

Only you can decide which way to go as you have the casting in your hand and can see what is on it, and how thick. A simple quick spray of primer over the previous work may be all that is needed to get back to your original starting point.

Keep up posted.....

Karl.A

captsully18

Karl, thanks for the tips. I followed Bretts' instructions in the manual, using another scrap section of wall casting this evening and tonight ( it's now 2:00am ) and it was looking absolutely great....... until I got to the part where he says to use chalks and A/I and flood the areas and before alcohol dried to blot it off with a terry towel. Well, everything came out a dull BLACK. That's what happened to the casting causing all the different colors. I thought maybe I hadn't followed the directions so I re-read them one step at a time. But ended up with the same mess I had before. I'm sure Bretts' instructions are correct and that I am interpreting them the wrong way. This seems to be a hurdle I can't get over right now. So my plan is to give Brett a call later today and talk with him about it. Thanks for the tip on the Xylol. I think will use it. I have already scrubbed it all down with warm water, soap, and a toothbrush. That did take a good bit off, but I think I would feel better to take it back down to original resin. Like you said, surely don't want to cover up any of the wonderful detail. That would ruin the caricature of the casting. Feel like I'm sweating blood over this. Sure will be glad when I can clear this hurdle. Thanks for being so kind and helpful. I appreciate all the help I have had so far. Glad I am doing this build on this forum. Otherwise I would have ended up with a very sub-par model.

David

Karl.A

Sounds like you have already overcome the hurdle David, no need to sweat blood. Just a little refinement to the last step and you are well on your way.
As a side note I would like to say that you have taken a great approach to this project.
You weren't afraid to try something new, and admit to yourself you could do better.
You took the time to practice on some scrap to understand the technique and improve terrifically.
You're now confident enough to strip back the casting and start over with what you have learned.
Although some of the things we tried didn't quite work for this application they may work somewhere else, and now you know how to do them.
Once we have worked on this final stage you will have a great technique in your modeling repetoir that you can use in many places and adapt and evolve for yourself.

It sounds to me at a guess that your A/I may be too strong and/or the chalk application was too heavy. If that is the case then both of these are easily remedied with a little practice and trial.
You can quickly recolour one of your test walls and try out various degrees of A/I and or chalk in sample areas to see the differences. No need to be careful with the sample colouring you just want a rough approximation as a base to work on the final finish.

You tried a few things, you learned a few things and now you can build a few things.

The end is nigh....

Karl.A

captsully18

Karl, what can I say that I haven't said before. You are a great confidence builder and I do value your input. I have already resprayed a couple of the practice pieces and now I am off to experiment with a couple different A/Is. Man, you are appreciated, as are the others, Bill, Wes, Kevin, and of course Brett. Thanks all, now to see if I can finish this in my lifetime. LOL

David

captsully18

Karl, I thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I mixed a new batch of A/I and used it on the practice wall and it worked just as Brett says in the instructions.Happy, happy.

Dave

Karl.A

Great to hear Dave.

Karl, I thank you for hitting the nail on the head

I've had the same result for the same reasons on some of my walls in the past.

The bonus is, now you know how to get that darker line along a waterfront wall without losing the base colours completely and also what to use for rising damp on a structure. Strong A/I.

Karl.A

captsully18

Well, here is the "new" first floor. Haven't done anything to brick. Will tackle that tomorrow. Stonework as follows: sprayed with Floquil Earth ( spray can ), followed by damp brushing with Floquil Prime, next was A/I with chalks ( mostly browns, with a little black, and a little golden ocher ) applied with plenty of A/I. Each step allowed to dry at least an hour. Last step for stonework was dry brushing with Grime. Casting dried about 3 hrs. and painted/chalked doors, trim, and boarded windows. As always, comments/criticism invited.

Dave

Karl.A

Well Dave, you showed determination and perseverance in order to get what you wanted, very commendable work ethic.
You posted over on RRL that you were taken with the results and that it looked just like the stonework in your area. If that is the case and you have achieved your objective then that is a success.
As I said in the beginning stonework is different regionally, if you are happy then that is the point of the hobby.

I look forward to following along with the brickwork and the rest of the build.

Karl.A

captsully18

Thank you Karl. I get the feeling that you could say more. Please don't hold back on me now. I do value your opinion. At the least I like it better than the first try. I do plan to weather it after I have the second floor and roof on. Working on the windows and doors now and plan to start on the castings tomorrow.

Thanks for checking on the work.

Dave

Karl.A

Dave,
Indeed much better, not holding back at all, just not pushing my own personal tastes onto your model. True, I generally would use more tans and browns as that is the colouration I am used to seeing.
Both interpretations are correct and fit our own taste/experience.

The wooden door and shutter in this shot look great. The only thing I would question on your wall is the lighter markings in the area marked below. They just seem a little heavy to me but really no big deal.



I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on the doors, windows and details.

Karl.A

captsully18

Karl, what would I do without your eyes. Can't say how much I appreciate your noticing that streaking. My old eyes didn't pick that up, even with my visor. That has bugged me so much that I stripped the casting down again and have begun from step one, again. I'm learning. Hope third time is charm. But I do tend to favor the grey color. The browns are gook, and I do like them, but still favor the grey. As you said, it's all what you get used to.Thank you again. I have done the windows and doors and think they look pretty good. I'll post pics later

Dave

Bill

Dave-
I've been busy with work so I haven't checked in for a bit.
Here's what I see on the wall (specifically the area that Karl circled):
The gray color you selected is a good color, but I think the way it's been applied is what's causing the problem. Did you thin down the gray paint? If you did, try just using it straight out of the bottle--not thinned. Not even a little.
Load up your brush ( I use a flat "shader" brush). Dip the bottom third of the bristles in the paint. Next, remove almost ALL of the gray paint by brushing back and forth on a paper towel. Test the brush to see if you've removed enough paint by making a pass on the back of your hand. The correct amount will highlight the ridges of your skin and no more. If you start to get the feeling that you've removed too much paint, take off even a bit MORE. Better to have too little paint than to go at the casting with a brush that has too much.

Here's a picture of what I'm trying to explain. I'm using a gray-black color simply because it shows up better in the picture. Look closely and you can see that the ridges of my skin have the paint but the valleys or depressions do not:




Here is how much of the paint I scrubbed off:



When you drybrush the gray, apply it in the direction that the light would hit it. Better yet...just use strokes that go from top to bottom only (don't go back up). Very light applications. You can always go back and add another layer (or 3 or 4 or 5) but it's a chore to remove heavy applications.

I really think if you apply the last layer of gray much lighter (and using the little test above) you'll get a final result that will be closer to some of the work you see here on the forum.

Don't give up! You've made a ton of progress and this last step is the hardest to perfect. It's very commendable that you've stuck with it and redone as many times as you have. For dry drybrushing, it's a matter of "less is more" and practice practice practice.

Bill

captsully18

Good pics, Bill. Thanks. Dry brushing has always been a downfall of mine.I either don't have any paint, or too much. Will try painting myself and see if that works, hehehe. Once again, Appreciate all the help you and Karl have been giving me. Y'all must feel like you're building this kit.........and I guess in a way ya are. Pics coming and I hope I have learned a few lessons.

Dave

Bill

Y'all must feel like you're building this kit.........

Yes, we do.
I've already got a spot picked out on my layout where it'll be going.
So, do a good job!

(I'm kidding)

JohnM

Dave,
I'm paying a lot of attention to what's going on here because I am eventually going to be facing the same challenge. I admire your willingness to keep doing it over. How fortunate to have such expert people to critique our work.
John

captsully18

John, it is the most comforting feeling to know that accomplished modelers are here on this forum to critique and offer suggestions, opinions, and just plain explain, step by step what one should do to over come a problem. I have stated before that I would not be where I am on this model if not for these guys. So, only advice I can give is jump in and have go at it, there are folks that can/will through a life preserver if/when needed.
Thanks for stopping by.

Dave

captsully18

Bill, I hope is a spot of honor ( yeah, right ) hehehaha.

Dave