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Trees

edited September 2012 in Scenery
In am hoping that some one out there can tall me how to stop ground foam from sticking to the trees trunk.

The entire tree from top to bottom gets covered with spray adhesive and is then dusted with foam ( woodland scenics green blend T49 ). As I am not using furnace filter type material, rather individual branches the trunk is very exposed. I have been able to brush off some of the foam but it still shows.

I have thought about dribbling some indian ink stain down the trunk to darken the green foam that is still there but this could run into the branches/foliage and ruin the tree.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. Apologies for the bad quality pictures.

Thanks.

John.






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Comments

  • Hi John-
    There are a couple things I would suggest. Some people will flock the branches first, then glue them into the dowel. You eliminate the cloud of ground foam that inevitably sticks to the trunk.
    You also may want to use hairspray instead of the spray glue. I've found that cheap aerosol hair spray is more than sufficient to hold the foam; yet not so strong as to prevent stray foam particles from being dusted off the trunk with a stiff brush.
    Another idea is to avoid getting the spray on the trunk prior to flocking. After gluing the branches into the trunk, hold the tree horizontally and lower it down into a mist of hairspray. Then, flock while the spray is still wet. You'll still have some foam to brush off but hopefully not as much. And, it won't stick as securely as if you'd used the spray glue. That's basically how I make mine.

    Try it out and repost your results.
    Hope that helps!

    Bill

  • I agree with Bill on his first point. I also usually flock the individual branches before appying them to the trunk when building trees this way.

    Alternatively one method I have used is to spray the bare tree with glue/hairspray and then dip or roll it horizontally into a large container with a thin layer of foam, thereby only letting the branch ends get foamed. This should give you more control of coverage as opposed to sprinkling the foam over the armature.

    Karl.A
  • edited September 2012
    One other thing, John. To my eye, your trunks seem a bit thick with respect to the width of the branches. You might want to try using a thinner dowel and taper them to more of a point.

    When I work on mine, I look at a silhouette of the type of tree I'm trying to model. For example, Google "Pine tree silhouette" and you'll find tons of b&w images of the shape of the trees that are a nice reference to work off of:

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    See how skinny the trunks are and how pointy it gets at the top in those 2 examples? It also gives you a good idea how far out the branches should extend.

    I can't find the silhouette file I used for these, but I pretty much copied the shape diretcly from that b&w image. I used balsa and caspia branches flocked with T49:

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  • Thanks guys.

    I will take it all on board.

    Bill; In have trying to find a source for the correct branch length to trunk diameter to tree height to no avail. Can you shed any light on this, as I would have to agree that the trunks are to thick.

    These two trees have been an experiment with trunks that I had laying around, the branches came from a false plastic tree topiary that In found in the hardware store. I have got artificial Caspia coming in the mail.

    Hopefully I will make another tree with a thinner trunk to night and post some photos tonight.

  • In have trying to find a source for the correct branch length to trunk diameter to tree height to no avail.
    Nope! I had the same issue and ended up trying to estimate by looking at those silhouettes. It's not an exact science, of course.
    Take a look at your bottle brush tree on the right (which is VERY nice). That, to me, looks like a reasonable ratio of trunk thickness to branch length.

    Paul Scoles has a chapter on building these types of trees in his first scenery building DVD which is worth checking out.
  • edited September 2012
    So here is a tree with branches individually flocked prior to being inserted into the trunk, the trunk is possibly to dark, still experimenting.

    The trunk is a smaller diameter and a little shorter, in HO by the way. Some of the glue still shows as it was only completed a few minutes ago and some of the plastic shows with a shine that a coat of dull coat would fix.

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    The photos are not showing ?? why not ??
  • An other tree with branches that have not been flocked or glued in, probably with best looking trunk so far.

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  • Try again.

    So here is a tree with branches individually flocked prior to being inserted into the trunk, the trunk is possibly to dark, still experimenting.

    The trunk is a smaller diameter and a little shorter, in HO by the way. Some of the glue still shows as it was only completed a few minutes ago and some of the plastic shows with a shine that a coat of dull coat would fix.

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  • All four trees together, with a wire tree to the left. Bills pine tree silhouette in the back ground.

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  • Some really good results youre coming up with John. Is there any way you could flare the bases a bit to represent the roots?
  • Yes, the shape of the bottom of the trunks is a problem, wish I had lathe. The next lot will have a better shape. So much is wasted and with Bunnings rip off prices....$5 for one one metre length of pine 19mm dowel !!
  • edited September 2012
    Looks like you're making progress, John.

    No need for a lathe. Take a look at this guy's video. He chucks the dowel into a drill then runs it against a disc sander. I think he's got a very fast and effective method for making the trunks:


    Tell us about your foliage. Are those the caspia branches or are you using something else?

    Bill
  • edited September 2012
    I am using the bench grinder at the moment for shaping the trunks, works ok.. In think a lathe would be good for shaping the tree base.

    There is artificial Caspia coming in the mail soon............

    The branches are from a false plastic tree topiary that I found at the hardware store.

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    The branches are plucked of its frame,

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    and ironed flat,

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    depending how long you apply heat and steam as to how straight they become,5 seconds and you have a nice drooping branch :) ... 10 seconds and its very straight :) .. 15/20 seconds it becomes very fragile and tends to want to become part of the cloth :(..

    There are four branches on very "thingy" and you can use one thingy with three branches at a time, sticking the stub into the trunk. Or cut them to what ever you need.




  • Need to find my self a better back ground:)
  • That was a great video! I'll watch it a couple more times!
  • edited September 2012
    Starting to get the pointy bit right, I think. drilling tiny holes and inserting splinters as branches.

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    A bit of HO perspective

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  • There you go! Looking good, John
  • yep... I agree with Bill
  • edited September 2012
    The artificial Capsia arrived the other day along with some fine plastic fern.

    Question now is with what do go with.

    A. Fern

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    B. Plastic tree topiary

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    C. Capsia.

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    All together. Capsia on the left, Topiary centre, Fern on the right.

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    As the American/Califorian pine trees don't grow around here, we have palms, any suggestion would be most welcome.
  • edited September 2012
    John-
    Your middle tree looks the best. Nice color and shape...very convincing.
    The fern branches look too big to me (mostly the bottom third--they look too wide). Maybe you can trim the larger pieces down a bit. I think unaltered fern branches are easily recognized by viewers as "pieces of fern" and can spoil the illusion from the start.

    You said "artificial caspia". Can you get real dried caspia in Australia? It may go by the name "Blue Statice" or something similar to that. The artificial stuff you used seems to be lacking that intricate branch structure found with caspia.
    I wouldn't abandon using the artificial material, I just think you'd like the look of the real stuff much better (if you can get it).

    Bill


  • I agree the center one is best. The one on the left is a little sparse and the one on the right looks like fern as Bill said. They all look good but the center is the one I like most.
  • John-
    Your middle tree looks the best.
    +1

  • Are you open to honest opinion and constructive critique.... in order to improve ?

    Karl.A
  • edited September 2012
    When I look at the firs and cedars that grow in my neighborhood it strikes me that the taper might be improved by extending it further down the tree. One of the best commercially available trees does this, in fact the custom trees he does are (I believe) sometimes modeled after actual individual trees he comes across in the wild.
  • G'day John.
    Agreed that the centre effort is the best one of the three. I like the branching structure better, and I think the foliage cover is better too. I think Bill is right in calling caspia "Blue statice" that name rings a bell as a garden plant. You may be able to get it from the larger nurseries...I am thinking of GardenWorld in Keysborough, Victoria. Then you could grow and harvest your own!

    Great trees by the way- always hard to make a prototype from far away.

    Greg in Australia.
  • edited September 2012
    I have to agree that the fern looks to wide and the artificial Capsi doesn't seem to really cut either. It was my thought that going with plastic would be much less fragile rather then going with natural materials. Looks like my next trip to the shopping centre/s is going to include a hunt for the natural materials.
  • I certainly agree with you on the taper Mike.....

    I followed your link and went to look at canyon creek scenics.....

    To be honest, the trees were no better than average commercial quality. I did like the sales pitch on the home page though......

    " From time to time Tree Maker Pete works at creating DeepWoods trees as the inspiration strikes him. " ..... "They range in height from approximately 12 to 24 inches and range in price from $150 to $350 each".

    A little too rich for my wallet...

    Karl.A







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